Very interesting interview, didn't know that Stolar felt that Saturn was a dead product by day 1, and conceived famous names in the industry.
Jord9622 said:
Scott MIller might know the answer to this one. Scott was integral in making Max Payne a reality. 3D Realms published Remedy's first game, Death Rally, and he helped them with both "Bullet Time" and naming Max Payne. Not only that, he negotiated the IP's sale to Rockstar/Take Two! I'll have to ask him. Its worth noting that "Bullet Time" was implemented before "The Matrix" during 1998. Will have to also reach out to the Kingsley brothers at Rebellion re: Aliens Vs. Predator, they may have answers there too.
System Shock 2 on DC would have been incredible! This one really hurts, as does Commandos 2 and Outcast, well really they all hurt
See, this is where all the confusion gets started...Victor might be the one running around saying Bernie hates 2D games and RPGs, I don't know if he is or not, regardless, this rumor simply isn't true. This has more to do with personality clashes and less to do with the games themselves. Bernie is a very direct person and straight shooter, he does not play mind games (no pun intended), and he is a very loyalty based guy. I cold-called him when I was 16 and he actually took my call and let me meet with him at his office in San Francisco...he didn't have to do any of that.
I've never met Victor, however, if he is spreading rumors, well, in my opinion, that's not a great personal quality to have...
Yes, Hayao Nakayama hired him and believed in him, I've had the pleasure of meeting Nakayama-San and he is another great guy. The problem between SOJ and SOA, I believe had more to do with Okawa. From what I understand, Tom Kalinske ran into a lot of the same issues which Bernie had to deal with. I believe Kalinske almost got the Saturn to essentially be the N64 architecture, he's the one who pushed the Silicon Graphics hardware to SOJ and they kept turning it down, saying it wasn't good enough. I think Tom is the one who suggested SG go to Nintendo right after that, and obviously that turned out really well. With regards to getting more Saturn documentation for developers, personally, I don't believe that would have helped much in the States. The problem was much deeper than that and frankly it was too late. Bernie and I did an interview with Arcade Attack earlier this year, where he goes far more in-depth about this.
They really couldn't afford to though. All the funds they had, needed to go to Dreamcast, or they would have went bankrupt. Bernie goes into the numbers in the aforementioned interview. The turnaround that he, Peter Moore, Chris Gilbert, and team pulled off was nothing short of extraordinary!
10 PC Games That Should Have Been Ported To Dreamcast...But Never Were
10 PC Games That Should Have Been Ported To Dreamcast...But Never Were
posted by pato on Sep 24, 2017:
10 PC Games That Should Have Been Ported To Dreamcast...But Never Were
posted by looptranzit on Sep 25, 2017:
When I heard it was coming to the Dreamcast I was excited. Then screenshots of Outcast 2 materialized for the PS2 and once again I was stoked. What a letdown when none of it materialized. At least the original devs have it back in their grasp now and are releasing a remaster, Outcast: Second Contact, in fall 2017 (PC, PS4, Xbox). So looking forward to this.
Oh man, Outcast. One of my all time favorite action adventure games.
Jord9622 said:
System Shock 2 on DC would have been incredible! This one really hurts, as does Commandos 2 and Outcast, well really they all hurt
When I heard it was coming to the Dreamcast I was excited. Then screenshots of Outcast 2 materialized for the PS2 and once again I was stoked. What a letdown when none of it materialized. At least the original devs have it back in their grasp now and are releasing a remaster, Outcast: Second Contact, in fall 2017 (PC, PS4, Xbox). So looking forward to this.
10 PC Games That Should Have Been Ported To Dreamcast...But Never Were
posted by pato on Sep 25, 2017:
I recall that at one point Kalinske had a interest over the M2, wanting it to be the next Sega console, but the plans fell quickly, was Stolar aware of Kalinske work and problems with SoJ and that's why he convinced Nakayama that the console was a deadbeat?
Jord9622 said:
Scott MIller might know the answer to this one. Scott was integral in making Max Payne a reality. 3D Realms published Remedy's first game, Death Rally, and he helped them with both "Bullet Time" and naming Max Payne. Not only that, he negotiated the IP's sale to Rockstar/Take Two! I'll have to ask him. Its worth noting that "Bullet Time" was implemented before "The Matrix" during 1998. Will have to also reach out to the Kingsley brothers at Rebellion re: Aliens Vs. Predator, they may have answers there too.
System Shock 2 on DC would have been incredible! This one really hurts, as does Commandos 2 and Outcast, well really they all hurt
See, this is where all the confusion gets started...Victor might be the one running around saying Bernie hates 2D games and RPGs, I don't know if he is or not, regardless, this rumor simply isn't true. This has more to do with personality clashes and less to do with the games themselves. Bernie is a very direct person and straight shooter, he does not play mind games (no pun intended), and he is a very loyalty based guy. I cold-called him when I was 16 and he actually took my call and let me meet with him at his office in San Francisco...he didn't have to do any of that.
I've never met Victor, however, if he is spreading rumors, well, in my opinion, that's not a great personal quality to have...
Yes, Hayao Nakayama hired him and believed in him, I've had the pleasure of meeting Nakayama-San and he is another great guy. The problem between SOJ and SOA, I believe had more to do with Okawa. From what I understand, Tom Kalinske ran into a lot of the same issues which Bernie had to deal with. I believe Kalinske almost got the Saturn to essentially be the N64 architecture, he's the one who pushed the Silicon Graphics hardware to SOJ and they kept turning it down, saying it wasn't good enough. I think Tom is the one who suggested SG go to Nintendo right after that, and obviously that turned out really well. With regards to getting more Saturn documentation for developers, personally, I don't believe that would have helped much in the States. The problem was much deeper than that and frankly it was too late. Bernie and I did an interview with Arcade Attack earlier this year, where he goes far more in-depth about this.
They really couldn't afford to though. All the funds they had, needed to go to Dreamcast, or they would have went bankrupt. Bernie goes into the numbers in the aforementioned interview. The turnaround that he, Peter Moore, Chris Gilbert, and team pulled off was nothing short of extraordinary!
10 PC Games That Should Have Been Ported To Dreamcast...But Never Were
posted by Jord9622 on Sep 26, 2017:
I agree with your second paragraph from a business/financial standpoint. However, when I said "obviously that turned out really well", I was speaking mainly from a technological standpoint. I realize I will get some disagreement here, however, I feel the N64 was the most impressive of the era on a multitude of fronts (in a lot of ways due to the SGI chipset). Ex. The first-party games themselves, 3D Analog Control, 4 Player Split-Screen Gaming, and I felt the Anti-Aliasing/look when viewed on a CRT was beautiful. All of which in some way or another made possible by having that architecture.
You left out Joe Miller's first sentence in that paragraph though which illustrates my point: "I think the problem with the SGI opportunity was that there may have been a touch of NIH (Not Invented Here) in the reaction." - This is what I'm referring to. They kept submitting endless changes, i.e. they had no intention of ever working with them.
HiSpec said:
That's not really the case, to be fair. Joe Miller* goes into more detail with an answer that makes a lot of sense:
The potential deal with SGI, as I recall, was being discussed in early 1993. The Saturn would be released at the end of 1994.. The N64, on the other hand, wouldn't be released until the end of 1996, and this delay did not turn out good for Nintendo in the end (it allowed the PS1 to get a strong foothold, and the N64 ended up selling even less than the Saturn in Japan). It very well could have been even more disastrous for Sega.
* http://www.sega-16.com/2013/02/interview-joe-miller/
I agree with your second paragraph from a business/financial standpoint. However, when I said "obviously that turned out really well", I was speaking mainly from a technological standpoint. I realize I will get some disagreement here, however, I feel the N64 was the most impressive of the era on a multitude of fronts (in a lot of ways due to the SGI chipset). Ex. The first-party games themselves, 3D Analog Control, 4 Player Split-Screen Gaming, and I felt the Anti-Aliasing/look when viewed on a CRT was beautiful. All of which in some way or another made possible by having that architecture.
10 PC Games That Should Have Been Ported To Dreamcast...But Never Were
posted by Jord9622 on Sep 26, 2017:
Yes, he was aware of the situation when he got there. He'll go into more detail in the book
pato said:
I recall that at one point Kalinske had a interest over the M2, wanting it to be the next Sega console, but the plans fell quickly, was Stolar aware of Kalinske work and problems with SoJ and that's why he convinced Nakayama that the console was a deadbeat?
10 PC Games That Should Have Been Ported To Dreamcast...But Never Were
posted by Jord9622 on Sep 26, 2017:
Fresh3D is one of our ZOOM Platform partners, they do amazing work!
Me too!
looptranzit said:
Oh man, Outcast. One of my all time favorite action adventure games.
When I heard it was coming to the Dreamcast I was excited. Then screenshots of Outcast 2 materialized for the PS2 and once again I was stoked. What a letdown when none of it materialized. At least the original devs have it back in their grasp now and are releasing a remaster, Outcast: Second Contact, in fall 2017 (PC, PS4, Xbox). So looking forward to this.
Fresh3D is one of our ZOOM Platform partners, they do amazing work!10 PC Games That Should Have Been Ported To Dreamcast...But Never Were
posted by Jord9622 on Sep 26, 2017:
Thanks for reading the article, pato!
pato said:
Very interesting interview, didn't know that Stolar felt that Saturn was a dead product by day 1, and conceived famous names in the industry.
10 PC Games That Should Have Been Ported To Dreamcast...But Never Were
posted by HiSpec on Sep 26, 2017:
The facts, as reported by Miller, are that SOJ were concerned that SGI would not be able to bring their chip to market efficiently. Sega was a very experienced consumer hardware developer, while SGI had zero consumer experience. No amount of revisions were going to change that.
In the end, Nintendo went with the SGI chip and it ended up costing them a year-long delay due to problems with the chip. The N64 was originally scheduled for release at the end of 1995, but this was pushed back to the end of 1996, two years after the Saturn and PS1.
Although Kalinske has worked very hard to paint SOJ as incompetent here (he claims they rejected the SGI chip because they were jealous of SOA's success - read any account from Nakayama and you'll know how unlikely that is), from Miller's account it does seem like SOJ made a well-considered decision, and in the end it does seem like their concerns were valid.
Ultimately, Kalinske is trying to build up a personal legacy, which makes some of his accounts questionable. I'm happy that we have accounts from people like Joe Miller to temper these.
I did leave out that first sentence of the quote because I wanted to avoid Miller's speculation and focus on the specific concerns of SOJ. There is enough speculation from Kalinske as it is.
Jord9622 said:
You left out Joe Miller's first sentence in that paragraph though which illustrates my point: "I think the problem with the SGI opportunity was that there may have been a touch of NIH (Not Invented Here) in the reaction." - This is what I'm referring to. They kept submitting endless changes, i.e. they had no intention of ever working with them.
I agree with your second paragraph from a business/financial standpoint. However, when I said "obviously that turned out really well", I was speaking mainly from a technological standpoint. I realize I will get some disagreement here, however, I feel the N64 was the most impressive of the era on a multitude of fronts (in a lot of ways due to the SGI chipset). Ex. The first-party games themselves, 3D Analog Control, 4 Player Split-Screen Gaming, and I felt the Anti-Aliasing/look when viewed on a CRT was beautiful. All of which in some way or another made possible by having that architecture.
The facts, as reported by Miller, are that SOJ were concerned that SGI would not be able to bring their chip to market efficiently. Sega was a very experienced consumer hardware developer, while SGI had zero consumer experience. No amount of revisions were going to change that.
In the end, Nintendo went with the SGI chip and it ended up costing them a year-long delay due to problems with the chip. The N64 was originally scheduled for release at the end of 1995, but this was pushed back to the end of 1996, two years after the Saturn and PS1.
Although Kalinske has worked very hard to paint SOJ as incompetent here (he claims they rejected the SGI chip because they were jealous of SOA's success - read any account from Nakayama and you'll know how unlikely that is), from Miller's account it does seem like SOJ made a well-considered decision, and in the end it does seem like their concerns were valid.
Ultimately, Kalinske is trying to build up a personal legacy, which makes some of his accounts questionable. I'm happy that we have accounts from people like Joe Miller to temper these.
10 PC Games That Should Have Been Ported To Dreamcast...But Never Were
posted by itsthinkingstil on Jan 24, 2018:
Anyone interested in seeing the argument of the Dreamast saving Sega head over to this topic for more facts https://assemblergames.com/threads/did-the-dreamcast-really-fail-in-sales.68221/#post-962159
Anyone interested in seeing the argument of the Dreamast saving Sega head over to this topic for more facts https://assemblergames.com/threads/did-the-dreamcast-really-fail-in-sales.68221/#post-962159