posted by bioboy on Oct 7, 2014:
This is just out of pure curiosity, as I have no idea how Sony is actually implementing their Playstation NOW service. As is publicly available knowledge, Playstation NOW currently serves only PS3 games from the cloud. Is it possible that SCE is using a datacenter (or datacenters) of their past rack-mound Playstation 3 architecture kit, the Zego BCU-100, for this task (http://pro.sony.com/bbsccms/ext/ZEGO/files/BCU-100_Whitepaper.pdf)?
The Zego BCU-100 ran Yellow Dog's PPC linux distro (just like it was available for PS3. I still have a Fat 60GB PS3 with Yellow Dog on it) , but I'm going off of the assumption that since it utilized both Cell and RSX, it probably also utilized a derivative of the PS3 system software at the hypervisor level, possibly enabling it to run PS3 games with modification by Sony.
Other options are pure emulation of PS3 and Cell/RSX on, say, x64 hardware, or possibly Cell/RSX accelerator PCI-e boards within x64 rackmount hardware...
Someone in the 'know' might correct me if I'm utterly wrong, but could Zego be a possibility for Playstation NOW (PS3 support)?
Zego BCU-100....Foundation for Playstation NOW (PS3 support)?
Zego BCU-100....Foundation for Playstation NOW (PS3 support)?
posted by l_oliveira on Oct 7, 2014:
Now, they would be using something based on the PS4. I can imagine them dumping a couple of these in a datacenter just to use them up. But not because they're powerful or good. Only because it's already there and could be used instead of being trashed.
Now, they would be using something based on the PS4. I can imagine them dumping a couple of these in a datacenter just to use them up. But not because they're powerful or good. Only because it's already there and could be used instead of being trashed.
Zego BCU-100....Foundation for Playstation NOW (PS3 support)?
posted by smf on Oct 10, 2014:
For the current PS3 games it's a new PS3 based motherboard, possibly with new chips too http://www.polygon.com/2014/1/17/5319370/report-sony-playstation-now-new-ps3-hardware
As well as the PS3 hardware there will be something that takes the controller inputs and the sound and video outputs and transfers them across the network.
I guess they will do the same for the PS4 when the time comes. For PS1 and PS2 they might do emulation or new hardware, it's probably still cheaper for them to build a batch of PS2 chips than it is to buy a tonne of PC's fast enough to run an emulator and write an emulator that is good enough.
For the current PS3 games it's a new PS3 based motherboard, possibly with new chips too http://www.polygon.com/2014/1/17/5319370/report-sony-playstation-now-new-ps3-hardware
As well as the PS3 hardware there will be something that takes the controller inputs and the sound and video outputs and transfers them across the network.
I guess they will do the same for the PS4 when the time comes. For PS1 and PS2 they might do emulation or new hardware, it's probably still cheaper for them to build a batch of PS2 chips than it is to buy a tonne of PC's fast enough to run an emulator and write an emulator that is good enough.
Zego BCU-100....Foundation for Playstation NOW (PS3 support)?
posted by l_oliveira on Oct 10, 2014:
First thing, they certainly don't need a GPU to run a CELL BE chip if it's going to be a server node. The RSX garbage can go home. Then the CELL BE was designed from scratch to be a cluster node. That ONLY MAKES SENSE I suppose.
And finally rumours said that the original design of the PS3 was supposed to have two CELL BE chips working together, one running the game program while the other did graphics processing. Again, not even surprising.
First thing, they certainly don't need a GPU to run a CELL BE chip if it's going to be a server node. The RSX garbage can go home. Then the CELL BE was designed from scratch to be a cluster node. That ONLY MAKES SENSE I suppose.
And finally rumours said that the original design of the PS3 was supposed to have two CELL BE chips working together, one running the game program while the other did graphics processing. Again, not even surprising.
Zego BCU-100....Foundation for Playstation NOW (PS3 support)?
posted by smf on Oct 10, 2014:
It's possible that PlayStation Now uses a similar method to remote play and doesn't need any RSX at all. Support wasn't mandatory on the PS3 & not many games did support it, but maybe they enable and test it on each game (which is why it's taking so long).
Local rendering might hurt if they use it to stream PS4 games to a Vita though.
Ken wanted to use some of the SPUs for rendering, but they couldn't make it work fast enough. This was one of the mistakes which led to him getting the boot. I never heard they intended it to be entire chip dedicated to rendering though. IBM co-developed the main CPU and included things that they wanted that Sony had no need for (some of them were things Microsoft paid them to add for the 360), so just because it could cluster doesn't mean that Sony had any intention of it. http://www.amazon.co.uk/Race-New-Game-Machine-The/dp/0806531010 is a good read.
l_oliveira said:
First thing, they certainly don't need a GPU to run a CELL BE chip if it's going to be a server node. The RSX garbage can go home. Then the CELL BE was designed from scratch to be a cluster node. That ONLY MAKES SENSE I suppose.
And finally rumours said that the original design of the PS3 was supposed to have two CELL BE chips working together, one running the game program while the other did graphics processing. Again, not even surprising.
It's possible that PlayStation Now uses a similar method to remote play and doesn't need any RSX at all. Support wasn't mandatory on the PS3 & not many games did support it, but maybe they enable and test it on each game (which is why it's taking so long).
Local rendering might hurt if they use it to stream PS4 games to a Vita though.
Zego BCU-100....Foundation for Playstation NOW (PS3 support)?
posted by l_oliveira on Oct 10, 2014:
Ah if they're actually running the game code on the server, then they will really need the RSX chips on the equipment ... hehe
Ah if they're actually running the game code on the server, then they will really need the RSX chips on the equipment ... hehe
Zego BCU-100....Foundation for Playstation NOW (PS3 support)?
posted by Riki on Oct 10, 2014:
They are using new custom board with 8 PS3. And I'm pretty sure chips are the same as retail units.
http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-2014-sony-creates-custom-ps3-for-playstation-now
They are using new custom board with 8 PS3. And I'm pretty sure chips are the same as retail units.
http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-2014-sony-creates-custom-ps3-for-playstation-now
Zego BCU-100....Foundation for Playstation NOW (PS3 support)?
posted by smf on Oct 10, 2014:
How did you think they were streaming the PS3 games if they weren't running the game code on them?
"The second reason for the all-new PlayStation 3 server design is that it allows Sony to make hardware changes to the PS3 configuration that claw back a few vital milliseconds here and there to lower end-to-end latency."
I thought all the games have to go through an operating system interface anyway, which is how Remote Play can work. So it might not be an actual RSX or it could be an RSX with a frame grabber or a custom RSX that can expose the frame to an x264 encoder. They are more likely to use a real RSX if they want everything to work exactly the same as on a console, but I don't know how important that is for the games.
l_oliveira said:
Ah if they're actually running the game code on the server, then they will really need the RSX chips on the equipment ... hehe
How did you think they were streaming the PS3 games if they weren't running the game code on them?
I already posted a story on a different site but from the same source & it's likely they aren't the same chips.
Riki said:
They are using new custom board with 8 PS3. And I'm pretty sure chips are the same as retail units.
http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-2014-sony-creates-custom-ps3-for-playstation-now
"The second reason for the all-new PlayStation 3 server design is that it allows Sony to make hardware changes to the PS3 configuration that claw back a few vital milliseconds here and there to lower end-to-end latency."
Zego BCU-100....Foundation for Playstation NOW (PS3 support)?
posted by bioboy on Oct 10, 2014:
In addition, I wonder if Sony had enough in their budget and planning to go with a blade center type architecture, such as IBM's Blade Center chassis and the QS20 (CELL B/E blade by IBM)..... http://www-01.ibm.com/common/ssi/rep_ca/7/897/ENUS106-677/index.html
This is what I understand as well. Just like later versions of the PS2, I wouldn't be surprised if SCE developed a Cell/BE + RSX single chip package to make it easier to cram 8 on 1 board. Other PS3 ASICs such as the the USB and BD/DVD ROM drive controllers wouldn't be needed I believe, as this 'PS3 Server' is probably completely controlled and loaded with game data remotely. The PS3 I/O controller probably only connects to storage and networking..
Riki said:
They are using new custom board with 8 PS3. And I'm pretty sure chips are the same as retail units.
http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-2014-sony-creates-custom-ps3-for-playstation-now
In addition, I wonder if Sony had enough in their budget and planning to go with a blade center type architecture, such as IBM's Blade Center chassis and the QS20 (CELL B/E blade by IBM)..... http://www-01.ibm.com/common/ssi/rep_ca/7/897/ENUS106-677/index.html